Now that David Crowder covered “How He Loves” pretty much everyone in the Christian music scene knows the song, which is great because it’s an incredible song that needs to be heard and sung. Fewer are probably aware that John Mark McMillan wrote the song (not Kim Walker) and that David Crowder changed a lyric that some in the church viewed as somewhat inappropriate. Out of that a silly little Christian controversy over the lyric was created. Here is the original lyric:
“So heaven meets earth like a sloppy wet kiss and my heart turns violently inside of my chest”
David Crowder changed the lyric after consulting with John Mark (which was a really cool thing to do by the way) to this:
“So heaven meets earth like an unforseen kiss and my heart…”
I personally appreciate the original line in its correct context. The people that have issues with it typically take it out of context and that’s too bad. I’ve had numerous exchanges on this blog explaining the context of this lyric and why I do not change it when I sing it.
It’s unfortunate John Mark needed to come out and clarify but I think it was an incredibly humble and mature thing for him to do and he did it very well. You should go read for yourself what John Mark has to say about the “sloppy wet kiss” but here it is simply and succinctly:
The idea behind the lyric is that the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of earth converge in a way that is both beautiful and awkwardly messy. Think about the birth of a child, or even the death of Jesus himself. These miracles are both incredibly beautiful and incredibly sloppy (“gory” may be more realistic, but “Heaven meets earth like a gory mess” didn’t seem to have the same ring).
I think it’s a brilliant line that attempts to illustrate the love in God’s sovereignty though many times we fail to see his love in tragedy, it’s there. I love John Mark’s heart for Jesus, I love that he makes us uncomfortable with his lyrics, his songs are a gift to the kingdom but more importantly HE is a gift to the Kingdom.
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I understand the context of the lyric and I think it is brilliant. However for some, "sloppy wet kiss" evokes an image that I am not sure I want to evoke during our congregational worship times. I love the song and enjoy John Mark McMilan's song writing.
One of the 1st times i came to visit LCC we sang this song with its original text and I appreciated the reality of it. Being raised in the church you get a little desensitized. I was in a place in my life where I was extremely prideful and thought i had worship @ this church all figured out. I was singing and reading the next line that said “Sloppy wet Kiss” I snapped back to the moment. I had to double check what I was singing and ponder on why that was even there! I loved it! I loved that worship in this place was not so glossed over that it didnt feel real. It made me really evaluate what was going on in my head. repentance didnt come right from that moment but I know that line was used as a seed in my heart.
I think in today's culture "sloppy wet kiss" just brings to mind or has the potential with most people to bring to mind an image or thought not usually Godly. Whether right or wrong, the risk to lose the whole song or moment over a line that can be easily said differently and have the same effect is not worth it. The song is so good. That is really from a corporate worship standpoint.
That being said, I feel I wholly understand John Mark McMillan's point in using those words, and I feel this song and even that line is probably very personal to him and it's a great line in a song.
That said, DCB plays to the masses, and in my parents church or where I lead worship in my church, that line won't go over corporately. I would even say most church's aren't "deep" enough in their understanding of worship and the arts to really go there. That is not meant to sound critical, you just have to know your audience/worship environment. The song nor its power and beauty is not lost because of this change.
Well said Jonny! I totally agree!
I am a 50 year old grandmom, that happens to love this type of music and just recently, came across this wonderful song! It made me cry 'tears of joy and saddness' when i first heard it! I love it…'sloppy wet kiss'…. and all !
And, agree with you, that in some cases…this line, may at times, be misunderstood!
Never the less, I feel it is a very annointed song, & I'm thankful, to have heard it! …and continue hearing it… as it's been in my head for days, along with the presence of God healing my heart, of old pain and regrets…and gently reminding me of … How He Loves!
Brenton Brown suggests (and I agree with him) that we shape our congregation's theologies more by the songs that we sing than the messages that we preach. They will remember a worship song far longer than they will remember a sermon. If this is the case, then we as worship leaders have an enormous responsibility to make sure that the songs we sing reflect the theologies we wish to teach.
I don't believe that the fact that our "church's aren't "deep" enough in their understanding of worship and the arts" should make it necessary to to change the words of a great line – which I think we can agree is wonderful imagery. Perhaps all that is needed is some simple context.
Just an opinion! Thanks though. This is very thought provoking.
I look forward to the day when we aren't even phased by lyrics like this. If anyone knows the Hebrew translation of what it means to "know" God, you're not going to bat an eye at stuff like this. The thing is God is more real and natural and organic than our whitewashed American religion can handle. Remember the priests of the old testament with blood on their hands from slaughtering heifers who were holy and consecrated for God, and they smelled like a barbecue gone bad. And these were those who went before the Father so that ordinary men would not die in God's presence. Some people like John Mark have gone there too, but God has rent the veil so there is no reason why we all shouldn't go there too. God made us messy organic creations in His likeness and said it was good. If you still have issues with how God made you, take a number to talk to the great Designer.
Oh, and I have lead the song several times before I knew there was another option, thanks David. The song was mysteriously banned from my list every week I put it on there. Absolutely hilarious to me because of the beauty, anointing, and purity of this song. God help us as artists to have grace on his family and still bring the good stuff.
I think what David Crowder did in toning down the sloppy wet kiss part was helpful because the song, overall, was really nice and brilliantly poetic, but with this phrase, I see at least two problems if it is OK to belabor it a little just for the sake of songwriting. My wife was offended by the song actually. The element that came across as a turn off was that it seemed to reduce the love of Jesus Christ from an infinite agape love beyond human comprehension down to a cheap form of Eros, and part of the problem with society today is our lack of restraint sexually before marriage, and frankly, also within marriage. With all the people going to church and pretending to be Christians while playing the liar and the harlot on their marriages and with all the young people shacking up or doing the friends with benefits thing, I don't think we need to be raising the worship of Eros to the level of a standard we would hope to bring Jesus Christ up to. I know that is a really hard way to say it, and I don't mean to be harsh, critical, and unloving, but rather to pour out some light not as though to accuse or blame anyone for bad intentions, and I most certainly do not want to discourage singers and song writers who in my opinion are awesomely talented and gifted by God. I just feel it is vital to remember when we are dealing with the love of God, it is a love that cannot be compared to an unexpected or a sloppy wet kiss, but rather is told by the suffering Jesus went through on the cross to pay for our sin while we were still yet unfaithful to Him betraying Him with hearts deeply selfish. His love is so much greater than we could ever imagine.
you are an idiot. the song shouldnt be offensive to any Christian. It's people like you that turn Christianity into politics.
Hmm…I don't think the song is necessarily offensive, but I think that response was…
Whether we agree or disagree with Daniel's views, I don't think name-calling when someone is trying to simply explain what they think is going to get us anywhere in this discussion. THAT'S what turns it into politics–acting like the world instead of like brothers in Christ, humbly respecting each other's opinions, even if we don't necessarily agree with them.
He's not literally referring to the love of Christ as a mere kiss, he's describing the beautiful collision and convergence of the wonder of heaven and sinfulness of the Earth being joined like a sloppy wet kiss. The joining of two, but not just the joining, but the overlapping and "sloppiness" that blends the two in a glorious way that Christ has planned. If your wife is offended by that, then she must be offended when the Bible uses metaphors such as the Church being the bride of Christ. That is exactly the kind of metaphor you said your wife finds offensive because of its comparing human relation and affection to Christ's love.
Actually, in the south (where JJM is from), a sloppy wet kiss is the kind that your parent or grandparent gives you. No eros involved in this kind of kiss at all. Yuck. Who would want a sloppy wet eros kind of kiss anyway? No, this is like a grandparent kissing all over your cheeks when they see you after a long absence. It implies unabashed, uninhibited affection like you would give a child. People will even say when talking to family, "Give so and so a sloppy wet kiss from me." So, maybe its a cultural thing.
JMM, rather.
My most favorite line in the song…brings to my mind a loving Father playing around with his children…in the purest sense…with laughter and joy and a 'sloppy wet kiss.' Jesus did say come as a little child…if we keep our thoughts pure, there is no offense.
I fully agree with you, Dianna. At first, it was an eye opener when I heard that line. But, with a quick thought–this is supposed to be a "Christian Song"–it came to me that, yes, children do that sooooo much—-grungy, little, runny-nosed children are sooooo sincere in their emotions. And, let's face it—a lot of "prim and proper" people don't like those type of kisses from these sweet innocent little beings, so they are going to take offense. But, I want to be like a child unto my Lord, so I'll continue singing this way. And, it's been going over-and-over-and-over in my head for the last two days–so something's really stirring with these words.
Thanks for hearing my opinion.
Yours in Christ,
~Lucy
Dianna, as a father of two boys I will never give them a sloppy wet kiss. I have too much reverence for my father to give him a sloppy wet kiss or to meet with him like a sloppy wet kiss (even an unforseen kiss which, come on, is a bit creepy). Nothing with the Father is awkward or should be awkward. We should have Godly fear and reverence for the King of kings than approach Him like this. Also, we need to sing more songs that speak about Him and glorify Him and remove ourselves from the equation.
When kissed by my earthly father as a little girl, if it was a sloppy wet kiss he should have been arrested and thrown in jail for incest. Our Heavenly Father is higher and purer than today's fleshly, soulish religious people can fathom. This generation has been watching too much television or too many X rated movies. People have been desensitized and need more and more to get a thrill these days. Don't drag my Lord Jesus into that. He is holy. Yes He loves us and he displayed that love by dying, not by erotic love making.
its such a powerful lyric 'sloppy wet kiss' I even used it in a theology lecture for describing santificacion of sin, went down really well. I think its a beautiful expression of Gods grace.
Bless You all =D
Aaron
I visualize the father running out to meet the prodical son at his return. The tears of joy and sobbing emotion that took place in that embrace would have been a sloppy kiss indeed.
I think this song is a case study in total misuse of metaphor. There is no redeeming value to a hurricane – nor drowning. . . and defending "sloppy wet kiss" is beneath the dignity of an argument. What really makes me chuckle is the passion expended to defend what is at best second rate writing.
I absolutely agree. With all of the argument going on regarding the "sloppy kiss," I've wondered if anyone else is just not a fan of the song in general. I was speaking at a discipleship conference when I first heard this song. I knew nothing of the controversy and the band played the Crowder version… but I raised an eyebrow during the first line where the hurricane metaphor was used. Weird. I'll stick with Indelible Grace.
Funny how you furrow your brow over the hurricane line, but no one batted an eye when Rich Mullins equated it to “the wrecklass raging fury, they call the love of God.”
Randy,
Metaphors by nature work for some people and don't for others. That's just the nature of using imagery in songs. But I'd disagree with your statement on "there's no redeeming value to a hurricane" on a couple fronts.
1. Redemptive value is not inherently found in any object, but rather in the person and work of Jesus. There's no redeeming value to a cross, it's a symbol of imaginable pain and suffering, so much so that it wasn't even discussed in Roman culture. But the redemptive value is found on Jesus' work *on* the cross.
2. There's no damning value to a hurricane either.
As far as second rate writing…well, I'd disagree but that's just a matter of taste.
Reminds me of a viewer's comment regarding the new Alice in Wonderland movie: " I didn't like it, it's not what I expected".
Well I personally think the song is absolutely amazing. I mean God has chosen to reference the church as a bride all throughout the scripture. The reason for this being he wants this intimate relationship with his church. So how singing and making a reference to "a Sloppy Wet Kiss" would offend someone is hard for me to comprehend.
And the first thing I think of when I hear of people having an issue, is how many times these same people have prayed the prayer God let me become so close to you and in tune with you that people can no longer see where I end and you begin or where you end and I begin. Let us be so intwined and wrapped up in you that we become like one. Well this is a very intimate prayer and statement and most people dont find it offensive. I think we have reached a place in Worship where we are once again transitioning, We have went from singing about him to singing to him and now we are becoming even more intimate. I used this definition once in a sermon on Worship, Worship is falling in love with God all over again….. What does John 3:16 say For God so loved the world…..I dont think this metaphor is cheapening our relationship with God. I think its speaking to us of What a love he has for us and the depths He has went.
"Sloppy wet kiss" reminds me of a dog licking peanut butter from its owner's fingers. The phrase has no place in Sunday morning church music worship; it's more demeaning to the Lord than an artistic expression of worship. DCB is an average band at best, and both the band and McMillan seem to be more interested in wordsmithing and emotional uplifting than double-checking some of their theology. (As does Chris Tomlin, who's all about "the rhyme".)
Please don't get me wrong; these guys fill a niche in Christian music that draws in their audience with their energy and style, and it's great to finally have some decent alternative-type music for a change. I'm not a fan of CCM in the least, and I love music that is creative and original. Ultimately, though, these guys responsible to God for singing about the truth of God – which means that if these guys are "worship leaders", they first need to get their theology straight on. In God's music shop, strong doctrine will trump a pretty ditty every time. If a person, somehow, begins to believe things about God that are not true by listening to (their) worship songs that are more artistic than based on strong biblical truths, these worship leaders have to answer to the Lord. Not a judgment; just a call to remember our priority in worship.
Daniel J., thanks for your insightful comments.
I do not limit myself where music written to bring glory to God is concerned. God has anointed many throughout the generations. I'm open to allowing opinions to be voiced, but I take exception to one who states opinion as fact, when in actuality, that opinion is untruth. After reading your post I reviewed lyrics to many of Chris Tomlin's songs. (I am actually very familiar with them all, but read through them anyway.) Are you aware that his lyrics, which he clearly states belong to God, are taken directly from the Word? That would make the theology of his songs spot-on, would it not? Also, concerning your choice of words, "Sunday morning church music," am I to understand that you believe worship is limited to Sunday mornings in a specified building, at a specified time? Worship is carried out in every moment of our lives, in every thing that we do and who we are. I worship God as I perform my duties as a 1st grade teacher, as I care for my husband and family, as I reach out to those in need, and as I lead others to sing songs of praise to God.
Your words do indeed seem judgmental, despite your stating otherwise. How can you possibly know the hearts of Chris Tomlin or David Crowder and whether or not they have "double-checked" theology? They are allowing God to use them as He will. I have heard them both interviewed in a live setting, and have witnessed their love for Him and their desire to reach a lost and dying world. God is using them to reach the world. They are quick to point to Him for all that they accomplish.
I realize I am somewhat rambling, and I must say that I appreciate any *style* of music written as an expression of worship of Almighty God, whether written today or hundreds of years prior. Please remember that all of these songs are written for God, not for man. We are to sing for Him and to Him. It is not for our benefit!
Thank you, Karen! You are so right, I hope Daniel reads and thinks about what you said.
What kind of music do you listen to? Does it glorify God?
Wow! I am truly amazed at how much controversy John's song has stirred up! After reading all the comments; both negative and positive. I've come to this conclusion; that God doesn't really care what any of us thinks concerning the lyrics of this song. Because it was John's heart cry to his heavenly Father, and his approval is all that matters.
I would also like to point out that, if we're going to point the finger at John for writing such a song, with such thought provoking lyrics about our Father's love towards us. We must go back and read our Bibles, and look up the book "Song of Solomon". Solomon's lyrics were just as revealing as John's. Also, there's an interesting picture story about God's love towards His people depicted in the life of Hosea the Prophet, and his wife Gomer the prostitute. What an awesome picture of God's love.
This discussion may have gotten a little stale by now, but I just discovered this amazing song and had some thoughts about it.
We've done this song a few times in worship at my church recently with the David Crowder lyrics. The song really shocked me anyway – in a completely good way. It's the first time in a long time that I've experienced a worship song stepping out of the safe and sweet lyrics that, to me, don't reflect the depth of pain and the depth of God's love in the bible or in my own life. It was actually the rest of the controversial sentence that hit me the hardest: ". . . and my heart turned violently inside of my chest."
I think the "sloppy wet kiss" lyric is mild in comparison to this and I see no problem in it at all. The idea that these lyrics are inappropriate seems relevant only in a pastoral sense, not a theological one. Worship leaders are responsible for how their songs will affect the life and spiritual growth of their congregations and there may be many cases where this kind of vivid language may be too distracting to be of value. My hope, though, is that in these kinds of congregations the leadership will work on shepherding their flock toward this kind of earthy and real depth rather than just avoiding it permanently.
Then maybe at some point they can start talking about the cross.
Great points Kelly, thanks for chiming in.
I wonder if any of you who do not like the lyrics "sloppy wet kiss" (which I personally would not have used) have ever written any better songs with better lyrics that have brought thousands of young people to a deeper worship? Do we know for a fact that these lyrics have actually done harm to the cause of Christ? Most likely not. So what's the problem? It would be revealing indeed if the Father Himself could post His own comment!! I realize that everyone is entitled to his/her opinion so here's mine… There seems to be an uncomfortable number of spectator Christians (who have never gotten off their "spiritual couch") telling the players on the field how to play the game. True? Just something to think about.
Numbers don't mean anything to God. Making a few good disciples is what pleases Him. And are people being brought to a deeper worship or a more soulish worship…… worship that stirs the senses. Are young people learning to worship Him in spirit and in truth?
Just heard this song for the first time tonight and read all the comments. I really like the song and the lyrics definitely express a heart after God. The video clip shows how much the people are drawn to worship. That should be an inspiration to anyone in love with Jesus.
My church turned it into a beautiful kiss… ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Why is there so much religion in church?!
We sang this for the 1st time in church today. Never even crossed my mind that it would be controversal. We are experiancing one of our best friends being diognosed with cancer and his wife just had cancer. It all feels like a sloppy mess, but we know the truth- God loves us, and his glory shines thought it all. I agree with Daniel, the bible is filled with things that may make us feel somewhat uncofortable to read, yet there are beautiful truths. Does that mean we just don't teach that particular scripture in church? I just find it exreamly strange that a believer would hava a problem with this.
i've met John Mark, he goes to my main church in SC that im going to bible college in the fall. He was seeing Jesus as his 'groom'. Jesus is our groom and we are the bride. So the 'sloppy wet kiss' was what he was seeing. I think its great! I cant wait to have Jesus kiss me.
I must admit that I thought the 'sloppy wet kiss' thing was gross, but now hearing his explanation I see it differently. It is true, Jesus' birth and death were messy. Wow, now I want to sing it that way again!
How would you feel if your earthly father/daddy gave you a sloppy wet kiss? Kind of gross, huh? God is our Heavenly Father. The whole idea of a "sloppy wet kiss" comes from eros, which is an errotic love. God does not love us that way. You'd better re-think your theology on this lyric. If it has created this much controversy. . . there is nothing Godly about it.
While I don't like this song, it is not for the sloppy wet kiss lyric. I have had sloppy wet kisses from my family that have nothing to do with Eros love. Ever had Aunt Martha give you a sloppy wet kiss? Was that kiss an Eros kiss? I actually don't have a problem with God loving us that way, either. Paul describes a marriage as being like Jesus and the church. If we are not to experience Eros love with God, then why did He create it? It's only our sinful nature and original sin that perverts Eros love into something that is not experienced with God. You can also look at Song of Solomon as well. The problem I have with the song (and the trendy phrase) is the idea of furious love. I still haven't figured out if God's love is furious, like a hurricane.
If you think this lyris has anything to do with kissing or eros then i think you are missing the point. Dig deeper. The metaphor illustrates the how the mating of humanity with the Kingdom of God is an imperfect union with the flesh making it a bit of a mess. Other metaphors could have been used for sure but would they have created such a stir? This is a stirring of the Spirit in my opinion. The debate could head toward what worship music should be in the context of "Sunday morning" but I really don't think the song was written neccesarily for Sunday morning usage although it's clear that some have taken it to the congreagation. Battle this out, people. Wrestle with God over this. Ask Him "is it ok?" The less we resign ourselve to accept first impressions the more we gain the ability to see beyond our own flesh.
No, the song is about "Oh how He loves us" so it IS about Him kissing us and He loves us as a man loves his bride but the relationship is more like us bowing and adoring a King for saving us from death, not spiritual intercourse on the honeymoon. People are watching too many fairy tales instead of reading the Word of God.
Having the lyrics "sloppy wet kiss" in a worship song meant to glorify God is so inappropriate on many levels. My church introduced this song last week and I blushed. Then I pictured a sloppy wet kiss in my mind (and I can't be the only one) I just couldn't get the image out; I had to quit singing which is definitely a first for me. A sloppy wet kiss has NO PLACE in a song meant to glorify our heavenly Father. A sloppy, wet, kiss should be for your spouse and your spouse alone! If they play that song at church again, I intend to sit down and read my Bible, and I sit in the first few rows.
It makes me sad to see the church go after a person's expression of their love to God. I understand there is basic theology and Biblical principles that we all need to adhere to, but this issue more so reflects how we view the Bible. We pick and choose what the like and don't like and fill in those areas with what makes us more comfortable. Who among any of us can truly say we know for a fact that God would want 3 words thrown out of this song? Any that believe they do are no better than the Pharisees that Jesus spoke against throughout His time on earth.
The Christian church has become too consumed with what makes us feel good inside and makes us comfrotable rather than being concerned with what God has called us to do on this earth. We would rather quarrell about 3 words instead of worrying about those around us who are hurting and need Jesus.
For all of those offended by a sloppy wet kiss, what are we to do with all of the marriage imagery in Scripture? God apparently was not offended by the marriage metaphor in the Prophetic writings nor in Revelation. Although I appreciate many of the things that the Reformed movement has brought to the ongoing dialogue, I sometimes feel like their insistence on the 'otherness' of God comes at the expense of intimacy. It isn't an either or situation. It is both. God is both transcendent and immanent.
Wow.. As a father of 4, all I can think about when I hear the "Sloppy wet kiss" is a loving Father kissing an infant child. Have you ever asked a toddler to give you a kiss? There is no kiss more sloppy, or more loving.
The correct answer is "The people that have issues with it typically take it out of context".
People WILL take it "out of context" and be offended by it, and that alone justifies changing the lyrics. In musical worship, we simply do not have the luxury of going over vernacular nuances, especially unbiblical ones. Leave ambiguity to humanistic poetry. Worship songwriters serve a higher purpose than artistic expression.
Which is why Jesus toned down his message to avoid being taken out of context and eventually killed by people who misunderstood him, leaving us a boring example of how we are to live tame lives that appease religious people.
I think the religion in myself is the most annoying and inhibiting foe i have ever come up against.
The song was never written to be a corporate worship song. so singing it as one is already out of context. However using this song out of context has led to some incredible encounters with God for countless people.
The song does not say, "God the father lays a sloppy wet kiss on your lips and slips you the tongue". It's a metaphor. I mean come on. We LOVE the Psalms but only the tame parts. We never sing the parts where David cry for God to destroy his enemies and gets brutally violent at times in his recommendation about how God should go about it.
Few songs that we sing corporately come to close to that kind of honest expression. I think JM gets close with "How He Loves Us".
It's not a song meant to "glorify God". It is a song meant to give us a picture of who He is. A glimpse of His great love for us.
If we don't have that picture clear then we cannot truly worship, because our love for Him is birthed out his love for us. So we don't get His love, we struggle to give Him our love.
This is a really late comment but personally I love the original version and the Kim Walker version. I couldn't believe when the lyric was changed by David Crowder. I thought the song lost much of what I loved about it. The mere fact that it is such a raw lyric, goes with the whole theme of the song being a reckless abandon love song to Jesus. To hear John Mark McMillan explain at the Nashville Call about writing it in the aftermath of his bestfriend dying brought tears to my eyes. It's a powerful song either way, but I love the original much more.
Should we be more intimate with the Lord than with our spouse, or less intimate? If this lyric conjures up "dirty" thoughts, maybe a sloppy wet kiss for you is more about sex than it is about love. Both were gifts from God, and both can be beautiful. Lust, however, which seems to be what a lot of people think of when they hear this lyric, isn't and cannot be beautiful. Perspective is everything. For example, in Kenya, exposed breasts aren't 'sexual' because that is the norm. If it offends you, maybe examine your perspective before stating that it is "wrong" or "ungodly".
We sing the original line in our services. Mostly because I love the lyric and the massive, beautiful thought it so succinctly conveys. All the talk about errant theology is a little funny to me, especially with John's clarification. It's perfectly sound. Orthodox, even.
But who doesn't love a good scandal?
My recent post 4 Thoughts On Observation And Participation In Worship
I completely agree with the person named Beth a few comments ago. You can say that Jesus' death was messy, but sloppy is the wrong word. Calling anything that heaven does a "sloppy wet kiss" sounds like you are bringing God down to a human, fleshy level. I still enjoy the song and worship God with it at church, and I don't care if anyone thinks the lyrics are great. But don't try to belittle those with a better appreciation for the David Crowder version. Some people are just trying to keep their minds pure as they worship God without having to picture a sloppy wet kiss.
“Bringing God down to a human, fleshy level” you used that as a pejorative. Ummm that's the marvel of the incarnation! Praise God he lowered himself and became flesh, otherwise we are dead men walking.Sent from my iPad