I was literally born and raised in the Vineyard, my theology and love of Christ was largely formed by John Wimber, taught and applied through my dad. I didn’t know it as a boy but so much of who John was, believed and lived for was being instilled in my spirit. For the first 23 years of my life I was being discipled in the Vineyard as a son, then a worship leader’s son, then later a pastor’s son, then later as a worship leader myself.
And then my mom drops in my lap this book called “Thoughts on Worship” written by a collection of Vineyard worship leaders, edited by John Wimber with the first couple chapters written by John as well. After reading those first chapters written by John I’ve come to realize that much of who John Wimber was, or rather what he was believed to be, was formed by his critics and by the outliers in the Vineyard rather than himself, his theology, leadership and teaching. My heart felt glad reading the overflow of John’s heart and how Christ centered he was. I want to highlight a few of the portions here and examine them briefly.
John sets out foundationally that we worship the Father, through the Son by the Holy Spirit. John quotes from John 4:23 early on and uses it to clarify this foundation of worship:
Jesus was saying worship must be in keeping with God’s nature, which is spirit, and it must be rooted in truth, which is found in Christ.
A simple, yet profound and often missed exegesis of a scripture so crucial to our worship. John hammers home the point that our worship is “Christ centered” and our songs are both “to him and about him.” As his exegesis continues on this point John writes about deeply intimate worship and how our “expression in worship may be more exuberant and free” than we are comfortable with. But instead of diving into the biblical postures of worship, John points to the bigger heart issue.
Worship is not about personality, temperament, personal limitations, church background, or comfort. It is about God. We are called to do it for his benefit, not ours. Yet the irony is that we do indeed greatly benefit when we give ourselves to worshipping God.
I would substitute “glory” for “benefit” in the above portion, because “benefit” makes it seem as if God can be made better, or improved in some sense by worship and of course that’s not the case, God is complete, whole and perfect. But as John continues he makes it clear that’s not what he’s trying to say either.
This is not some kind of ego trip because poor old God has a bad self-image. He doesn’t need to be buttered up by the loving things we say.
John continues on in how “our praises enthrone God” and “as we acknowledge the greatness of God and His supreme position over all creation, we become aware of our own limitations.” In short the better view of God we get the more we realize how bad off we are and just how much we need Jesus. This truly is at the heart of the gospel becoming bigger and bigger to us as our intimacy with Christ grows.
Now John Wimber does something that might surprise some of you, he wraps up his “essence of worship” by quoting J.I. Packer. All my reformed brothers are now standing and clapping at their desks as they read this.
J.I. Packer says, “Worship in the Bible involves praising him for what He is, thanking him for what He has done, and desiring him to give Himself more glory by further acts of mercy, judgment and power, and trusting in him for our concerns for our own and other’ future well being.”
Dr. Packer has grasped the true essence of worship. As we interact with God, we will find ourselves more and more satisfied in him and less and less satisfied with the things that have attracted or enticed us.
Doesn’t the second paragraph sound a lot like John Piper’s Desiring God? I must admit I wasn’t expecting this, but loved reading it. John makes it clear what the heart and true essence of worship is, how it must be Christ centered, how expression comes from the overflow of the heart, how worship is for God’s glory not ours and how God is not a weak, wimpy God with a bad self image that we must prop up with praise. To me this should now be read as a pastoral letter from John to the church, admonishing them and reminding them of the truth. I don’t mean the Vineyard specifically because I’m no longer in it and I don’t pretend to know what is happening in it, but for the broader church. This strikes at the heart of Christ-less worship and idolatry in music.
But this should also be read as an encouragement in intimacy with Christ in worship and how that is done biblically in spirit and truth. Where our passion should be and what that ends up looking like in corporate worship, namely not a dry, emotionless, comfortable experience.
Much more could be said here, but I’d rather ask you guys what you think. Has any of this been eye opening as to who John Wimber was as a pastor? Does this surprise an of you that these texts came from the founder of the Vineyard? Question for the Vineyard guys, 13yrs after this was written, do you still see this as foundational truth in your worship theology or have other things replaced it?
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Great Post Kyle
can I make a comment that's slightly off topic?
I'm part of a reformed charismatic church network called Newfrontiers (originally UK but now all over the place). From the 80's onwards John and the Vineyard had a massive impact on our movement that really shaped our expression of church – especially 'doing the stuff'.
But only a few years after Wimbers death it seems like (from our perspective) Vineyard dropped off the map. I know it's still there (Vineyards largest UK church is in my home city of Nottingham), but the reach and influence seems greatly diminished.
Here's a baffling case in point – try to find Wimber's teaching on line.
I found ONE mp3 on a South African church's website. The offical store seems to be selling CD's and even tape cassettes!!!!!!! but no mp3's free or otherwise.
From an outsiders p.o.v. – it looks like Vineyard at large doesn't value or care about Wimber's legacy or teachings.
Your post would seem to say otherwise. But what gives?
Sorry to rant. I should probably have made this a post on my own blog!
Thanks anyway…
Matt,
First off, love New Frontiers and what you guys are doing, so keep up the good work.
Second, I think it's pretty well agreed that Vineyard's sphere of influence, reach and leadership in the global church has diminished significantly. There are a lot of differing opinions as to what exactly happened, I have my own set of opinions (unsurprisingly), but I'm not sure how best to address that topic, and I'm certain there are probably better figures than myself to write about it.
Third, I was attempting in the tone of my final questions to basically inquire along the lines you mentioned and that is…why isn't what John taught being talked about, used, and stood upon in the Vineyard? The sad truth is that even when John was alive there was some division theologically that led to some big splits inside the fellowship of churches, so it stands to reason that after John's passing that divide would increase rather than heal.
But like I said, I'm no longer part of the Vineyard, though I love them from afar and have many friends, worship leaders and pastors still in the Vineyard whom I know deeply love John Wimber, what he taught and stood for and trained them in. I just wish more would actually get back in touch with that original vision and see how orthodox his worship theology was.
Thanks for the comment, hope to interact more with ya.
Just came across this post a year later, but wanted to make a comment based on what Matt said about not being find much of John's teachings posted as mp3's for free. This baffles me as well. I'm thinking that in light of how powerful, relevant, and impacting that John's teachings could be to the current Body of Christ, why not give it away as much as possible? I know, I know…there's expenses involved in doing ministry, etc., etc. But I sure wish the Wimber family and/or AVC USA would follow the lead of Mike Bickle (see http://www.mikebickle.org), and just post EVERYTHING John has ever taught to, at least listen to online for free. Just my opinion, but in agreement with the above posts that the influence of the Vineyard has greatly diminished, and considering that those who could greatly benefit from John's teachings probably aren't going to pay the current asking prices, why not just give it away? I'm specifically thinking about how much it costs to purchase the MC510 teachings…make them all available for online listening while giving people the option to purchase in CD or DVD if they want, and to donate towards the costs of making the online listening available for free.
Just received a link of downloadable John Wimber content from a Vineyard friend of mine. Great resource, not free however.
http://www.yorbalindavineyard.com/audio-downloads…
I just read the article above and the following comments and felt compelled to share a thought myself.
I started off in the Vineyard back in the early to mid 80's at John Wimbers church. Eddie Espinosa was my mentor and he taught me everything I know, either directly or indirectly, about how to lead worship – in a Christ Centered way. I share this not to drop names, but to just confirm the article written by Kyle about worship.
I can tell you, with out any exaggeration, that Vineyard worship today is not only nowhere near the same as it was back in the 80's, it is exactly the opposite of what John Wimber taught us it should be. If you would like to know why the Vineyard is no longer as influential as it was back in those days, the reason is centered somewhere around this issue of worship. I know you might have a difficult time trying to make the connection, but, if you would allow me, I would like to share why they are related, from my perspective, for whatever it's worth.
There is a fundamental principle the Vineyard learned early on about worship, just as the movement was first starting. John talked about it in a paper he wrote titled, Worship: Intimacy with God. In it, he wrote, "We learned that what happens when we are alone with the Lord determines how intimate and deep the worship will be when we come together." Out of this principle, we learned that our worship services started long before Sunday morning came. Essentially, we were taught how to be worshipers, rather than just how to sing worship songs. We learned it, because our worship leaders modeled the lifestyle for us. As worship leaders, we were told this one thing before ever being considered, "If you want to be a worship leader, you must first be a worshiper".
Have you ever heard the term, you are what you eat? It's a true statement and it applies not just to the physical, but the spiritual as well. In the early days of the Vineyard, our worship leaders fed their sheep worship and as a result, their congregations fed on that and they became worshipers and lovers of God. Move forward somewhere after that, I don't know exactly when, but it's sometime after 1987 is when things began to change and you will find that this principle was set aside for something else. Worship leaders discovered they had talent and began expressing themselves musically a lot more than what we did in the early days. Move forward further to today and what you will find in most Vineyard churches is a rock concert or a production during the worship time. Apply the, "you are what you eat" principle to today: If you feed your congregations nothing but music, that's what they are going to feed on and what they will become is Song Singers. Feed them a rock concert and they become spectators, which is more inline of what I see in most Vineyard churches or any other church these days.
So, what does all of this have to do with the Vineyards influence diminishing over the years? Ask yourself, why was the Vineyard called, "The Vineyard". The answer is in John 15:5-8. I won't quote the whole passage, but I will focus on one aspect of it, "If you abide in Me, I will abide in you and you will bear much fruit". It goes onto say, "If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given to you. This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples". This is the only reason why the Vineyard became so influential and it became a movement that shook the world. God showed up, not because it was something He chose to do, because He had some reason to start showing up back then. God showed up at the Vineyard church, because the church chose to show up before God back at home, before they even came to church.
You want to know how to plant a mega church these days? Find a really great teacher, and some really talented musicians who really know how to put on a great show. Apply some modern day church growth to the ingredience and you can plant a mega church these days, without God being involved with it in anyway, shape or form. People do it all the time.
You want to know how to start a movement that shakes the world, just like the Vineyard did back then. Find a small group of average, ordinary, nameless, faceless people and teach them how to become lovers and worshipers of the Lord Jesus Christ, making Him the center of their lives and how to abide in Him daily. That's it.
Now, you want to know how to destroy that movement. Kyle hit on it: Make church about something else, other than Christ.